Episode #24: We had to Change… Whole Foods Market HQ’s Journey through COVID-19 with Jess Kolko
Caneel Joyce:
Hi, this is Caneel Joyce. Welcome back to Allowed. Today on our podcast we have a very special guest. Jess Kolko is deep in the trenches of an organization that I know many of you are currently relying on quite deeply. It’s our beloved Whole Foods. And Jess works at Whole Foods Corporate in Austin, Texas, and in particular, has been helping with a massive and extremely rapid transformation inside of the organization for them to be able to respond to the quickly change needs of our society today. She’s got a really interesting story to tell. And I think it will also illuminate why you showing up today to do this work and to be in this space of personal growth does pay off so very much not only for you, but for all of those that you touch through your conscious leadership. Jess, thank you so much for being here today. Welcome.
Jess Kolko:
Thanks for having me.
Caneel Joyce:
And just for background, Jess initially was a friend of mine and a friend that I met through a friend, hadn’t seen her in years and then we reconnected and now she is a client and she’s a client that gives me a lot of energy every time I meet with her. She always inspires me and so I’m really excited for you to see her. Also I wanted to mention, she’s got some incredible ink guys, she’s full arm, beautiful colored tats, so if you want to check out our live conversation on video, you can go check it out on YouTube, and there will be a link to that at caneel.com/podcast. All right, so let’s get into it. Jess, welcome. Let’s just do a little check in, see where you’re at today and how you’re coming into this call.
Jess Kolko:
Today, I’m actually really excited to have had as we’re all saying our new normal, a new normal week. It has been a whirlwind of working way more than 40 hours, working a lot outside of my normal hours, working over the weekends, really just being super focused on shifting the business. So I’m really happy to have something that feels a little bit more doable than the fire hose I’ve been drinking out of for the last month.
Caneel Joyce:
Yeah, you look really radiant and healthy.
Jess Kolko:
Thanks.
Caneel Joyce:
Guessing you had some big runs lately. I know that Jess is a big distance runner, what’s the latest big run you have done?
Jess Kolko:
It’s called the Wonderland trail. It normally takes, I don’t know, week or so for people to backpack around it. But since I’m a runner, I did it in three days.
Caneel Joyce:
Jeez.
Jess Kolko:
That was probably my most epic thing.
Caneel Joyce:
Incredible. I know a little bit about the backstory of how you began running and I think it actually connects to what we’re going to be talking about today with the journey you’ve been on recently and your role at Whole Foods. And I wonder if you could share with our audience, why did you begin running?
Jess Kolko:
I used to be a chef for many, many years I worked in kitchens. And if any of you had worked in food service, you know that it’s really difficult to take breaks. And the only way that we were taking breaks was our smoke breaks. So I used to be a pack a day smoker. At one point, I decided that that smoking didn’t fit with my lifestyle. I’ve been a vegan for a really long time and I’m really interested in nutrition and health and I was still a smoker. So what I started doing was I started running, didn’t worry about the smoking part yet and started running one lap around the park which was a mile.
Caneel Joyce:
I’m sorry, what’s the connection or why did you start running? You’re smoking, you decided you want to start running. Usually smokers don’t run.
Jess Kolko:
Yeah. No, part of it was I knew I needed some help in quitting and wanted to figure out what it was that was causing this. Like, why did I have this habit and what did I want to do here? I’m not really good at asking for help most of the time, I’m much better at it now. So I decided that I would power through and start with running and then hopefully that could get me to a point where I could feel like, okay, I really want to continue to run so the quitting smoking part is a lot easier for me to do. After I ran my first 5K, I decided it was okay to stop the smoking habit. So I talked to my chef and I said, “Hey, when everyone goes out for a cigarette, I’m going to go out for green tea break,” and she was very supportive of that. So that got me to understand how to do it in the restaurant world, and then it just became part of who I am.
Caneel Joyce:
Well, I’m happy to hear that you’re taking such good care of your health and you certainly have needed that physical stamina and endurance over this last month. Let’s rewind. Let’s actually go into the walls of Whole Foods Corporate and what exactly is your title at Whole Foods Corporate?
Jess Kolko:
My title is senior team leader of the transformation and nutrition team on the culinary segment of our global support office.
Caneel Joyce:
What does that mean? What do you do?
Jess Kolko:
Food transformation basically is taking food and making it into something else. So anytime you walk into the food bar area of the Whole Foods Market, so that’s our prepared foods and bakery departments, my team is responsible for all of the recipes. We’re responsible for the ingredients statements, the allergen statements and the nutrition information. So anytime you see calories on a sign or you get something that has a label on the outside and has a nutrition facts panel on it, my team is responsible for those things. And it’s only the stuff that we make in-house. It’s all of the in-house prepared food items. So yeah, it’s been a big shift in the business there.
Caneel Joyce:
Yeah. Because nobody is actually in-house now. Nobody is even going into a Whole Foods really. So that’s a total up ending of your role. What was it like, if you can remember the moment when the news really began to settle in, and that first shock to the system came to your team. Do you remember that day?
Jess Kolko:
Friday the 13th.
Caneel Joyce:
Friday the 13th.
Jess Kolko:
It actually literally was on March 13 on that Friday, there was some talk of a big shift coming and then it was get all hands on deck, get my team prepared to be working over the weekend.
Caneel Joyce:
So that’s this moment. We’re on Friday the 13th. Now, let’s rewind a little further. Because I know that this story really points to the coming to fruition of a lot of the work that you have done to grow as a leader. Before we hear about how you responded to this crisis, I’d love to hear about what the challenges have been that you’ve noticed that you’re facing, and maybe how you would have responded before. Like if this had happened a year ago.
Jess Kolko:
If this had happened a year ago, I would have panicked. I would have not known what my first steps were going to be. I would have started spinning, spinning in victimhood, not understanding what needed to happen, what I needed to mobilize, who I needed to talk to. And I probably would also have been very scared that I was going to fail. And that would have been a huge disappointment to the company because there’s a lot riding on that transition.
Caneel Joyce:
When I heard you say, I would be really scared that I was going to fail, I noticed what I think I was reading some emotion in your voice. What would it have meant to you personally if the team in your words failed?
Jess Kolko:
That I failed them.
Caneel Joyce:
That you failed them?
Jess Kolko:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Caneel Joyce:
And I see you tearing up a little from a familiar sight. Beautiful and familiar sight. I know that’s sensitive, but what would it have meant to you deeply? Why does it matter to you enough to be emotional about?
Jess Kolko:
I feel responsible for them and their growth and their success. As a leader, I feel like I need to be the one setting an example and practicing what I preach and really being fully conscious of how my actions impact them emotionally, intellectually, career wise. And at times in the past, I would not have been proud of the way I would have responded. I would have probably responded in a way that was not sensitive to their needs, and not in a way that I would have been an exemplary leader.
Caneel Joyce:
Which is very different from how you lead now I know and I want us to get to that. I think it’s just so important to underscore the weight, the weight of that burden of leadership that I know so many of our listeners feel. And for those who perhaps haven’t had an opportunity to yet be a manager or a leader of people, I think it’s really important to just ask for empathy around the tremendous responsibility that your leader most likely really does feel for how they are running their team. And we all struggle with that in our own ways. And I know that one of the cool things about leadership development work is through leading, it confronts us with some stuff about ourselves that goes beyond our professional leadership. And was this also the way that you related to yourself of being afraid of letting others down? Was something that showed up in yourself in your personal life as well at that time?
Jess Kolko:
Yes, absolutely. For a long, long time, I struggled with perfectionism. And I think that a lot of the work that I have been doing for personal growth and professional growth has been around that or something somehow tangentially related to that struggle with perfectionism, and just being a human and being vulnerable and it being okay to be vulnerable and acknowledge that vulnerability is a huge step for me in the right direction instead of having to take on that perfectionism, that perfectionist role and just be okay with, I’m human and sometimes I’m going to mess up. But owning that as well, right?
Jess Kolko:
There are leaders I know in all places that I’ve worked that mess up then decide to sweep it under the rug or cover it up which always comes back to haunt them later in life. But being okay with saying, yeah, I messed up. You know why? Because I’m human and we all do. It took me a really long time to be able to embrace that and to show that vulnerability because I’m not good at asking for help or wasn’t good at asking for help because I can do it all myself and I can do all right. And-
Caneel Joyce:
Stories, these are stories you had.
Jess Kolko:
Yep, absolutely stories I had, and stories I had since childhood. These are just things that I thought were right. And realizing that creating that space even for my team members who I lead to see that vulnerability, to know that it’s okay to be human. I don’t think that we always think that it’s okay to be human in a setting when we’re being professionals.
Caneel Joyce:
What is that corporate story that gets so passed down layer by layer generation by generation about why we shouldn’t be vulnerable? What is that story?
Jess Kolko:
I don’t know. It’s not a good story to be continually perpetuating. I think though, that there’s a generation of leaders that are becoming a lot more emotionally intelligent and using that emotional intelligence in the workplace. There’s a lot of people who listen to Renee Brown and who understand that it’s everybody’s experiencing this and it’s not just isolated to you in a particular situation with a loved one or a family member.
Caneel Joyce:
It’s funny as you’re talking about emotions and being vulnerable, I’m remembering our first session together. Do you remember what you said?
Jess Kolko:
No, I don’t.
Caneel Joyce:
I said, what do you want to work on together? What would really make this a win for you?
Jess Kolko:
Oh, being less emotional in the workplace?
Caneel Joyce:
Yeah. Not crying in meetings I think is how you put it.
Jess Kolko:
Honestly, I can’t. It’s just, it’s who I am.
Caneel Joyce:
It’s who you is. That’s right. All right. So at some point, you decided and way before COVID-19 that you were going to do some work and you came to me looking to … I don’t know why you would come to me for such a thing. But you did. You came to me to stop being so emotional at work. Beautiful. But there is a reason. What was going on for you, internally was going on at work that made you decide that it was time to seek out a coach, because that’s a big commitment.
Jess Kolko:
I think the first thing that comes to mind is that I like all of my folks at Whole Foods, they’re wonderful people, but I don’t necessarily know that I’m getting the most out of all of the leaders around me. And I want to make sure that as a leader, I am being the best I possibly can be and contributing the most that I can in a way that can change the culture around me. At the same time, Whole Foods is really ingrained in our culture. And our culture is very warm and welcoming, and a lot about the individual, a lot about people taking their own initiative and becoming what it is they want to be in the store and in the corporate offices. I mean, most people who are in large, visible leadership positions have come up through the store.
Jess Kolko:
I know that that’s a very important part of a lot of our leaders lives, but I also think that it narrows vision sometimes. We get in a place of this is how it’s always been. This is how our leaders are, and I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t getting stuck there, because it’s a good thing and a bad thing at the same time when we’re so ingrained in our internal culture. And one of the things that I wanted to get out of our coaching relationship was understanding how things are in other places. What can I bring from the coaching world into Whole Foods leadership that I think would really mesh well with the culture that we don’t see today.
Caneel Joyce:
Great. Yeah. Because there is a lot like you said, a lot of people are becoming more interested in emotional intelligence and psychological safety, but what did you find? What were some of the new things that you brought in?
Jess Kolko:
I think embracing the vulnerability. At times, I feel like my particular leaders as an example didn’t necessarily show that vulnerability. And at times that was, for me I’m not understanding the way they’re reacting to things because they’re not sharing that vulnerability. I think a lot of times had I understood what was going on and there was some of that communication happening, I would have reacted differently to some of their reactions.
Caneel Joyce:
So we did some work together, we did work around the drama triangle and understanding the dynamics of drama and helping you to better be able to locate yourself and ask that question of where am I? Am I above the line? Am I below the line? Now, let’s fast forward. We’re back again at March 13th. And when you first got the news, can you put yourself back in your body at that time?
Jess Kolko:
Yes.
Caneel Joyce:
What did it feel like?
Jess Kolko:
My heart definitely started beating faster, got a little stomach clingy. Got a little sweat on the brow, thought started coming quickly on what needs to happen, who am I going to talk to, what we need to do, how many hours this is going to take? Figuring out each of the next steps for the next few hours. And also, it’s going into the weekend, what are we going to do? Our stores need help. My team members are going to need help over the weekend. One of the reasons why lots of us get into our corporate world is because we have that that safety of those weekends. And what disruption am I going to cause to those folks, when they’re in a scary situation personally outside in the world, all of these things are going on and I’m asking them to not be with their families that initial big weekend of movement in the company.
Caneel Joyce:
Do you remember if you were above or below the line?
Jess Kolko:
I think initially I went below the line, but it was quick. [inaudible 00:18:36] pretty quickly and said, “Okay, I need to get this done and I need to be in a state where I can be the best leader that I can in this situation. Because if I stay below the line, I’m not going to be that exemplary leader and I am going to fraction my team. I’m going to drive a wedge in some of the folks and drive them away from me perhaps permanently if I don’t be my genuine authentic leader self. If I grab on to that emotion of being the victim or being below the line, that’s not going to help anybody. Even if that’s the way I feel, personally, I feel that that’s happening and I feel below the line, my leadership needs to be above the line in this situation no matter what.”
Jess Kolko:
There were times when I had to drop off a phone call over that weekend and get myself together and be like, okay, coach myself out of the spin and then get back on say, “Sorry, I needed to take a minute or whatever,” and get back on to my train tracks of being the leader that I want to be.
Caneel Joyce:
How do you coach yourself in moments like that?
Jess Kolko:
Take a deep breath, blowing roses. Just very helpful. So long, deep breath in and blow out, just recenter, count to 10, do it again, until you know you get that emotion in the right spot for what it is you need to move forward or do.
Caneel Joyce:
I love how you put that because there is a need for our emotions. We’re not trying to make the emotion go away. We’re trying to work with the emotion. And in this case I’m hearing there was fear.
Jess Kolko:
Yes.
Caneel Joyce:
There was some fear and intelligent fear. So how did you approach it? What did you do to approach your team about this weekend and how did you even message what the future was going to look like for them?
Jess Kolko:
There were tentative steps, making sure that I didn’t say too much too fast because I didn’t know a lot yet either. Making sure that they had a clear understanding of what needed to happen and how we were going to be connected over the weekend. I let everybody know this is going to be an all hands on deck situation, I’m going to need two people this weekend, it might expand to more people. So if you are not available, please make me aware that you are not available and it’s okay if you are not available. But if you can be, I will be running communication from our leadership to you guys on what needs to get done. And then all data and specific questions need to go to these specific people. And this is how I always want to be looped in on the communication and this is the reality of where we are right now.
Jess Kolko:
I will be in constant contact with you guys. I had no very specific people working on very specific tasks. I’m sure I was breaking it down in a way that made sense and then verbally getting a confirmation. There was also a lot of committed action. So who does what by when? I was making sure that every communication to my individual team members, I always got, okay so what is your committed action? What can you commit to by end of day today by noon? That committed action was very necessary in this time of crisis. And if I was asking for a deadline that couldn’t be met, I made it very clear, you need to renegotiate that deadline with me. I’m okay with renegotiating the deadline, but I need to run that renegotiated deadline to my leadership and make sure that that was an acceptable renegotiation.
Caneel Joyce:
If you hadn’t been operating this way, which is in certain ways, it’s a tight ship of communication. It’s no ambiguity, no open loops, I love this committed action. I think that that is just making really clear agreements. But if you hadn’t had done all those things, what would have happened?
Jess Kolko:
It would have been a mess. I wouldn’t have known what was going on. I wouldn’t have known if we could commit to certain deadlines that I was being asked to respond to. I wouldn’t know what had been done, and that would have caused me to spin and become frantic and have to dig and dig and dig and dig and dig. And I can dig in certain places now but I’m, again, as a leader moved away from the day to day work of what my team members do. I definitely have been in the trenches with them, but I don’t do it anymore. And that’s one of the things that’s difficult as a leader to embrace is that as a leader, you need to be a leader. You don’t necessarily need to be the one in the trenches doing the work, but you have to be okay with that. And that as a middle manager is a very hard spot to be in because as a former perfectionist, I want to be in there. I want to be in the trenches doing the work.
Caneel Joyce:
Right, right. How did your team respond? Was this a different leadership style for you?
Jess Kolko:
I think they have seen changes in my leadership over the years. There’s many of them who have been with me for five years, which is pretty cool. I have been in communication with them about the fact that I’m being coached and seeing a lot of the time, “Hey guys, I’m going to try this thing out with you. I’m going to suck at it right now. And I’m going to stumble and my feedback might be bad and I [inaudible 00:24:44] practicing and my commitment is to become the best leader that I can be and become the best manager that I can be.” And a lot of the times they’re like, “Okay, fine. No problem.” And other times they’re like, “Yeah, that feedback like, can you just [inaudible 00:25:00].” Yes.
Caneel Joyce:
I love that.
Jess Kolko:
So they’re aware that things are changing and shifting. But in all honesty, yeah, I mean, if I asked if there’s one particular team member I feel who’s been with me as a leader forever, I think she would say if this was just five years ago, would she have reacted differently? And she would definitely say yeah.
Caneel Joyce:
I love how you gave yourself permission to experiment and play with the new things that you were learning, especially because these are human to human relational skills so much of the time that so often it comes into our communication style, it comes into a model we might be trying out or even new language. This is the thing that so often happens when we start learning about conscious leadership. And it can be a little bit like a record scratch, if you begin to suddenly, as someone’s trusted leader and manager, speak in a completely different tongue and behave a different way, especially if it’s still feeling awkward and not natural. I just love, I love that. I think that’s a great recommendation for leaders who are learning everywhere is, it’s okay that you’re learning something. It’s actually such a good example to set. And I love that you enrolled them in giving you feedback on how well it was working rather than needing to wait for a quarterly review or something like that. We are allowed to try new things.
Jess Kolko:
They all matter to me. And if it’s not working for them, then I need to take a look at does that work for me, and we all need to get on board or do we say okay, that model of leadership, whatever it was or whatever it is, doesn’t work for my team or doesn’t work right now for my team. Maybe later. Had I explained the drama triangle to them three years ago, I don’t think they would have been receptive to that. But there would have been defense, there would have been like, why are you telling me that I’m a victim? Having done it rather recently, I think they’re starting to embrace it. And that might not have been the case a while ago. Now they’re, are you in victim mode?
Caneel Joyce:
Oh, that’s amazing.
Jess Kolko:
Asking each other those questions. So that’s so good.
Caneel Joyce:
Were there any moments that were particularly challenging over this last month in your team? Any challenges you guys faced together?
Jess Kolko:
I think for me, there was a lot of being very careful about how I treated everybody and making sure that everyone was okay. And there were times when I was not okay. But I knew-
Caneel Joyce:
Can you recall like one time in particular?
Jess Kolko:
Yeah. I have three peers, and we all report to the same manager. And we all had twice a day check ins every day for the last four weeks just to make sure that morning we know what we’re working on, end of the day, we recap. I can’t remember, I think it was two weeks ago on Friday. I couldn’t hold it together. I had literally worked 14 days in a row. I worked many hours on those days and someone made a comment, and I just lost it.
Caneel Joyce:
What was it about that comment?
Jess Kolko:
Having worked so hard over that last 14 days and to have a comment that to me felt like I don’t trust you, that felt like a cut. But also to have one of my colleagues who was on that call after we hung up to text me and say, I see you and I’m here. That was big for me. That was huge.
Caneel Joyce:
Yeah, that’s so simple. I see you and I’m here.
Jess Kolko:
Yep.
Caneel Joyce:
It’s like all you need.
Jess Kolko:
And that takes a second to be able to just shoot that off to somebody in a text. No matter how distracted you are, you can say those things and be there when you need them to, which is amazing.
Caneel Joyce:
But if you’ve created a set of norms that I don’t want you to see my vulnerability, so I’m going to pretend it doesn’t exist. And it’s really important to me that you also pretend my vulnerability doesn’t exist. And if that had been the way you were operating, I don’t think you would have received that supportive text message.
Jess Kolko:
No, I don’t think so either.
Caneel Joyce:
It’s a way that we so often enroll people in us keeping up with our shadow dance and us keeping up with our self deception and our lack of self awareness, we enroll people in us keeping away from our self awareness, you know.
Jess Kolko:
Yeah.
Caneel Joyce:
And it’s one of the first things you scan for when you start at a new company is, what are the things I’m supposed to ignore here?
Jess Kolko:
Yes.
Caneel Joyce:
What are we supposed to not talk about here with this person? Yeah, I gave you credit for the way that you’ve influenced your team. And that’s where I’d like to go next because I remember because of the intensity of the crisis moment that your team was in, we moved our coaching sessions which normally are live on video. We moved them on to like asynchronous on Voxer. And for those listeners who haven’t tried it yet, you can download on iOS, you can download this app, it’s called Voxer Walkie Talkie, we’ll link to it in the show notes. It’s one of my favorites. I love using it with my clients and my colleagues. And it basically lets you leave these extraordinarily long voice messages for each other, you can leave a message up to 15 minutes. And then you can also listen to it up to four times its normal speed.
Caneel Joyce:
So it helps you really if you were trying to navigate through a big message, but it’s a great tool because it gives you a sense that you’re in a real conversation, but yet, for schedule pinched people, most executives are and I certainly am, we don’t need to schedule it. You still need to find the time which is still time, but it’s flexible. So we’d shifted into this Voxer coaching method. I think there was one message you left me and I’d asked how your team was doing and you describe to me what you were seeing happen in your team. And I was bouncing down the street with joy listening to you and what you were seeing in your team and how much you’re appreciating them and tell us about what you saw come forward in this crisis.
Jess Kolko:
Yeah, it was an incredible cohesion of the team that I could not have predicted how amazing and rewarding it was to be able to see them come together and just tackle a massive amount of work with appreciation for one another with appreciation for me as their leader, with no complaints, with many, many, many hours of overtime, with many hours over the weekends. I saw people step up into leadership like they never have before, and I saw others on the team recognize that leadership and drive forward with that ship captain and make it happen. I just, I was floored by how incredible it was to watch. And for Caneel to come back on Voxer and say like, “Whoa, this is amazing.” I’m like, “It’s them.” She’s like, “No, it’s you.”
Caneel Joyce:
Yeah, it’s both of you. It is. You helped create that for sure. I’m sure they would say the same thing. How do you think your leadership is going to be different when we’re out of what feels like a crisis and we’re through a lot of these big changes? How are you going to be different?
Jess Kolko:
I think I’m definitely going to be different in just more of an acknowledgement to each individual team member about how they must be feeling. And not necessarily around every personal emotion. I had someone who was having internet difficulty yesterday. And she’s very apologetic for what she didn’t get done that day and what she had committed to get done and all I said in my email response to her was, I can see how having internet issues at this time must be very frustrating. Why don’t you just stop for the day, go outside, take a walk, figure it out tomorrow. And then her response back to me was just joyous. And just that tiny little bit of interaction where I recognize your frustration, and it’s real.
Caneel Joyce:
You’re allowed to be frustrated.
Jess Kolko:
And that’s okay. [crosstalk 00:34:40] outside and be done for today. And that’s okay. And I think that I’m going to take more time in really just making sure that I continue that connection with people. Also, my tolerance for bad behavior from other people is really low now and I am okay with being one to call them out on it. And I’m also okay being, if someone calls me out on my bad behavior to recognize it, acknowledge it, apologize for it and move forward from that. Whereas before, I might have gotten defensive. Three times today, I apologized for things that came off wrong, but I don’t think I ever would have done that to the extent that I did it today. Obviously, if I do something that really offend somebody, of course, I’m going to apologize but to just be in that space of, I’m human, you’re human. We screw up, we try our best, let’s continue to be humans and be real with each other.
Caneel Joyce:
And going back to the way that you began running and just thinking about, there was no crisis, there was no leadership crisis in particular when we started working together a year ago, and yet you, for whatever set of reasons committed to growing, and then along comes COVID-19. And it was, again, like that choice of if I’m going to keep at it, if I’m going to keep this growth trajectory up, this is that moment where I really need to decide, am I going to give up like my biggest addictions, my perfectionism, my heroing behavior, and I can do it all. I’ll do that for you. My defensiveness and my dwelling. I’m hearing you kicked some of those.
Jess Kolko:
Yeah, it feels amazing.
Caneel Joyce:
This is the glow. Jess, do you have any advice for people out there right now who are managing it and maybe who haven’t … for whom this concept of leading consciously is a new one, who are in the thick and probably really below the line, working on a team that’s really below the line, in the middle of a massive global crisis. What advice would you give a manager like that?
Jess Kolko:
I would like I said, embrace the phrase assume positive intent and connect on a human level. Showing your humaneness, how can I help you is huge and I think that goes a really long way with a lot of people. A lot of your direct reports I think will feel seen when you ask that question. And it’s and it’s not a hard question to ask. And normally the responses are things that you can actually do, which is also feels really good when you can support. One of the examples was, hey, can we move this our one-on-one check in because I really like to take my dog for a walk after I finish XYZ task. Cool, let’s move it, figure it out. And just being okay with some of those negotiations.
Caneel Joyce:
Beautiful. You’re at Whole Foods and I hear you just acknowledging the wholeness of each of us as humans at this time. And in particular, I’m personally really grateful of how much you are holding your own wholeness as important here. Thank you so much for being here with us today on the show, Jess. If people want to follow you somewhere, is there a place they can do that? Are you active online?
Jess Kolko:
No, not a whole lot. I would definitely feel free to connect on LinkedIn, I’m there. That works for me.
Caneel Joyce:
We’ll put a link to Jess’s LinkedIn profile in the show notes. And really appreciate your time and thank you listeners thank you again for showing up today for yourself, for all of those who are impacted by your state of presence and consciousness and by your leadership in its own unique and authentic way that you and only you can do it beautifully and perfectly. All right, enjoy being humans this week, and we’ll see you soon.
